Lori Boyer 00:00
Welcome back to Unboxing Logistics. I’m your host, Lori Boyer from EasyPost. Look, I get a lot of questions around returns. Returns are a big deal. Returns are a huge challenge for retailers, and really the returns issue has kind of been having some shifts with what consumers are expecting and, and just what’s, you know, retailers should do out there.
So in response to that, I have brought on an incredible asset for you today to learn a little bit more about really kind of the state of returns right now. Blue Yonder just released their 2025 Consumer Retail Return Survey, and I have brought on Tim Robinson to discuss it. So we’re gonna get into all those details.
But Tim, welcome, can you introduce yourself to our Unboxing Logistics family here and, and let everybody know a little bit about you.
Tim Robinson 00:57
Thanks, Lori. Thank you very much. I’m delighted to be to be talking to you today. Yeah, so my name’s Tim Robinson and I work for Blue Yonder, the supply chain software and transformation business.
The the bit of the business that I look after and am responsible for. Is all around ecommerce, multichannel retail, omnichannel retail. So order management and returns. And you can imagine from a supply chain perspective, only five, six years ago, returns weren’t really a thing, weren’t really spoken about at, at, you know, kind of enterprise supply chain level, but now are a very big part of our business, a big part of our relationships with customers.
And, you know, the, the, our vision of the future, you know, managing the returns process. I’m delighted to be able to talk to you about it today.
Lori Boyer 01:46
Yeah, I’m really excited because returns really are something that’s super challenging for all retailers out there. The costs are growing and growing and growing and growing and, but you know, consumer expectations.
Trying to meet that balance of how do we balance costs with also making sure our consumers and our customers are happy is rough. So I’m really excited to do that. Before we do that, Tim, one of the things I love that we do here on Unboxing Logistics is I ask everyone to share just a person from the industry that you really admire and why.
Tim Robinson 02:17
I mean, in our industry it’s a, it’s a real toughie, isn’t it? You know, because there’s been so much change in recent years. You know, I, I, I often talk to people about how I’ve been in logistics supply chain my entire working life in various businesses at various shapes and sizes. And it wasn’t that long ago that, you know, when you went to talk to the logistics professionals in a business, they were in a dusty office in the corner of a warehouse somewhere on the edge of an industrial estate, you know?
But now, you know, we’re all, you know, we are, we have C-suite executives running supply and super and responsible for this. So, so it kind of highlights the degree of transformation. And, you know, having, having described myself as a guy that kind of obsesses about omnichannel, retail, ecommerce you know, returns, customer experience, that you can’t look much further than Amazon really.
And I would say, I’m not sure it’s one individual, ’cause you, it’s pretty easy to say Jeff Bezos and his leadership and, and his vision for the business. But there have been some pretty phenomenal supply chain leaders in that business over the last 20, 30 years that I think have really set the scene.
And it’s down to them that, you know, retail, you know, logistics, manufacturing businesses, I think have C-suite supply chain leaders that now see supply chain as a point of differentiation, and a driver of customer satisfaction, and a driver of profits, and a driver of growth.
Lori Boyer 03:45
I absolutely love that because I think it’s something we all know, everybody’s chasing Amazon and you know, trying to keep up with that, but really they created a complete shift in the way.
This entire industry was viewed, and the way consumers viewed it. But you know, even the way internally, supply chain and logistics and great, great call out there, Tim. Okay. I want us to, I, I’m just really excited. Okay, Tim, I am such a nerd about data and statistics, and this is like my happy place.
So I’m really excited today to be diving into the results of this study, is fresh out of the oven. But first, can you gimme maybe a little bit of a background on what this survey is? You know, just who you, who’s, where is it conducted, what’s included? All, all that.
Tim Robinson 04:37
Blue Yonder is a B2B business ultimately, you know, we, we, we license and, and software and, and, you know, partner with, with businesses.
But you know, ultimately consumers shape demand. You know, they shape all of our careers, all of our day-to-day lives. You know, the, the choices we all have to make. And so and no more, no, there’s no better example of that than when you come to ecommerce, you know, and, and modern shopping, put it, put it that way. The, the consumer’s attitudes have changed significantly.
You know, you made that point right up front. Consumer, consumer kind of, you know, preferences, you know, the things that influence consumer preferences are changing all the time. You know, the, and and I would also say that they’re changing in a, in what is already a, a kind of challenging industry, challenging market to satisfy their basic needs.
For some years as retail and, and consumerism moved from very traditional models, brick and mortar retail models to multichannel, you know, our, our customers, our partners were using things like free delivery, free returns. You know, ease, convenience as a point of differentiation. And it worked for a number of years.
Some big businesses have been built on the back of those commitments and those concessions, you know, to consumers. But for a long time, the kind of the imp impact on the supply chain, the implications to sort of transportation, warehousing, planning, you know, sort of operating, operationalizing those needs weren’t really, weren’t really changing and weren’t really being reflected.
And so, and so, you know, I think businesses like Blue Yonder, a very good example, those of us that are in supply chain. Whilst we may not consider ourselves consumer businesses, we have to be consumed and obsessed by the consumer’s attitude and their changing behaviors. ’cause that, that’s the, that’s the light.
Lori Boyer 06:52
Okay. I’m gonna stop you right there, because that was a awesome statement. While we are not consumer businesses, we need to be consumed with the consumer experience.
Tim Robinson 07:04
Yeah.
Lori Boyer 07:04
Brilliant. That’s so true. Love that, Tim.
Tim Robinson 07:07
That our supply chains only exist because these people want to buy this stuff. You know? And, and so if we, if we aren’t doing everything we can to predict what they might wanna buy, when they might wanna buy it, how they might wanna buy it, you know, from who they might wanna buy it. And building supply chains to satisfy that. We have we have little hope, I suspect. But when you think, so this survey is an example.
We actually, we actually survey consumers in other areas, but this is a very good example of where, we have identified 6,000 consumers that that profess to understand returns, returns, customer experiences, and the impact of policy, which I’m sure we’re gonna come onto later in this conversation. We’ve surveyed those consumers across the US, the big European markets uk, France, Germany, but also in, you know, those parts of the world and geographies where ecomm is a high as a high share of wallet like Australia and New Zealand, for example.
So we’ve got a really good spread of respondents, you know, shopping in, in multiple different verticals and segments. It’s not all fashion, you know.
Lori Boyer 08:18
There’s retail beyond fashion, is that why you’re telling me, Tim?
Tim Robinson 08:21
Yeah, apparently. Yeah. Apparently there is. Yeah. And so do, and so it’s been, it’s, it’s always been fascinating for me, you know, as a supply chain professional, getting the real life views of consumers.
And, and you know, I I, I spent a number of years building a supply chain software business that delivered consumer experiences that was visible at the checkout of online retailers or visible at the, in the returns pages. And I loved it for that very reason.
Lori Boyer 08:52
I, I love that too. Okay, so this survey, I mean, it’s full of all kinds of insights of what’s going on today.
You know, 2025 has been a chaotic year, if nothing else. So if you, what things jumped out to you, Tim? What, what are, let’s say there two or three or four findings, what, what were the things that kind of made you say, hmm, I see?
Tim Robinson 09:16
So I would say the survey. The big thing that sort of jumped out for me was it reinforced some kind of headwinds that we’d seen in, we’ve all seen in the press over the last 12 months. And so this point about consumers will abandon a relationship with a retailer if they believe that the returns policies are too strict.
Lori Boyer 09:40
Yes.
Tim Robinson 09:41
Or they’re moving in the wrong direction.
Lori Boyer 09:43
Yes.
Tim Robinson 09:43
And that really came out strongly in the survey. That consumers are, you know, of all of all demographics are way more switched in now to politics. Like, what am I allowed to do? You know, what’s, what’s, what’s deemed reasonable in these circumstances? And if they believe a retailer is behaving unreasonably, they won’t shop there. They’ll move somewhere else. And, you know, we’ve seen it, you know, there’s been some, some relatively high profile cases over the last few years, particularly in Europe, I’d say, where you know, fast fashion retailers have changed their returns policies, and it’s literally been front page news.
You know, thousands of consumers having their accounts suspended because of their propensity to return frequently. You know, that’s been front page news and you know, on national news shows, I mean it’s, and that’s how important it is now, but it’s a big driver of risk for retailers.
Lori Boyer 10:36
It, it’s a huge one. And I have this stat here. It is a little bit shocking to me. Eighty-four percent, your survey found, 84% of consumers say they’ll stop shopping at their favorite retailer if the returns policies tighten. Their favorite. I mean, that’s massive. That’s so huge.
Tim Robinson 10:58
They would stop shopping around, stop shopping at their favorite retailer.
Lori Boyer 11:02
Their favorite retailer, they will abandon due to return policy. So do you feel like this is a growing trend? Is this similar to what we’ve been seeing in the past?
Tim Robinson 11:12
No, I think it’s growing. It’s really growing because I think consumers are becoming more switched into this stuff, you know, and, and maybe reinforced by some of the findings later on in the survey around more and more consumers you know, now having a return refused. We’ll come back to that one ’cause that’s an interesting point. But, you know, because I think consumers have started to see a tightening of policies, a hardening of the retailer’s position but also they’re actually seeing it play out in their own relationships and therefore it reinforces their sense of injustice.
If you think, and in many cases, I made the point earlier on that the growth of ecommerce has often has really been driven by concessions on behalf of the retailer around things like free, free, free delivery, free delivery, price, price, price, price, price. And you know, it’s almost like consumers are saying like, hang on.
Like you started it. Like, you got me here, right? You got me here because of these promises you made. I’ve now changed the way I shop. I’ve changed, you know, I’ve got, like, I, I can’t, I can’t look through the door of a high street fashion retailer now ’cause I’m embarrassed by the fact I don’t talk to them anymore.
I now shop from you guys and more you are making it harder for me to do it. It’s I think that’s the big driver, of course, behind that finding.
Lori Boyer 12:22
How, how do you think people should balance this? So, I talk to a lot of retailers and they say, and, and it’s completely understandable, the, the costs associated with returns have been skyrocketing, you know, as returns are growing.
But absolutely the whole draw into kind of some of the ecommerce space in a way was this ability to return things free. What recommendations, so if we have somebody listening right now and they’re like, well, great. How am I supposed to offset these costs, you know, how do you balance trying to make sure you offset costs and keep customers?
Tim Robinson 12:56
I’d say a couple of things, and I would say one is philosophical and one is one is practical. So the philosophical would be, and, and I literally have had these conversations with retailers. The philosophical one is you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta think differently. So about returns and about real consumers.
You know, if you just tighten returns policies and start charging, you are making it their problem. And it’s not their problem. And, and unless you make the philosophical shift to a place where it’s your problem you are probably gonna continue trying to get the consumer to solve it for you. And that’s a weird, that’s a weird business strategy, trying to get your customers to solve your profit or supply chain problems inadvertantly. Like try, almost like trying to do it by stealth, like slipping it under the, under the radar.
Lori Boyer 13:45
Maybe they won’t notice.
Tim Robinson 13:47
Yeah, maybe they won’t notice that I’ve just charged them $2.50 for a return or whatever, you know? And so, but, and, and I would say that the important thing about the philosophical shift is whilst returns were growing as a proportion of orders and it was becoming a bigger and bigger problem, I would say in the most part, retailers, brands treated them as loss.
So the broad assumption was if something is being returned to me, I’m never gonna resell it. I’m gonna, it’s gonna go to liquidation, it’s gonna go down the secondary market, or I’m gonna landfill it. I think the philosophical shift now is you have to consider these items as assets. This is real life inventory, which can be resold for full value on Wednesday.
Lori Boyer 14:32
Okay, that’s another big one. So I’m gonna stop us again. Consider your returns, your items as assets, not as losses. We’ve got to take a shift. I’d love that, Tim.
Tim Robinson 14:45
It’s still a pair of Nike Airs. When they went out, they were Nike Airs. When they come back, they’re still Nike Airs
And so there is still a demand for those items. And so that’s the philosophical. The practical therefore is if you use technology. And you know, modern technology particularly, you know, that works really fast, that allows you to make decisions real time on the edge. If you use technology to treat items, to treat returning items in exactly the same way you would a brand new outbound item i.e. you use technology to know where it is, what it is, when it’s coming to, to, to forecast what I might need to do with it, to, to sell it, how, then to fulfill it, to ship it.
Then actually, actually you’ve got a very high likelihood that you’ll be able to resell that item, if not for absolutely full price, for the vast majority of its natural res of, of its previous, its prior prior sale price. And just, you know, we have a, a customer of ours that made a very like killer point to my CTO actually a couple of years ago.
And he said, he said the funny thing about returns is he said, it’s my worst supplier. Oh, it’s 40% of my orders come back, come into my warehouse every day. And I dunno, when they come in, I dunno what they are, I dunno who’s sending them and I know, but I know I’ve gotta sell ’em. So if you, if you use technology which is readily available to put your customers into a digital journey, collect all the information you need to understand the state and condition of that item.
And move that item back into supply chain quickly, you know, and effectively, and move it to a place where there is demand as quickly as you possibly can. ‘Cause you know that now because technology tells retailers where there is demand and where they’re likely to sell items or where they’re likely to stock out.
Use this inventory to manage those stockouts and to manage those peaks and troughs and demand and you’ll start to see returns as assets rather than problem. And therefore, the idea of charging a consumer $5 to return it, which might actually make it slower for them to return, or they might, if they have to return it themselves, they might find the slowest, cheapest route.
You end up getting back to the point that this is important inventory and the best idea, best thing we can do with it is get it back and resell it as quickly as possible.
Lori Boyer 17:07
Okay. I love it. So what I’m hearing is, we gotta probably, in today’s volatile market, we need to keep some of our return policies pretty flexible for our consumers.
Where we need to switch is say, okay, we gotta stop just saying keep everything and, and do you know, we need to use, these returns as assets and actually find better ways. Great news is with all the data and technology and tools and AI and everything we have out there now, it is way more possible.
Tim Robinson 17:37
It’s possible. Yeah. We prove, we prove it all the time. Yeah. We prove all the time that we can, we can, we can, you know, we can fulfill against finite data. Every minute, every hour, every day. It’s possible. You just think about re returns as inventory and I, I think the philosophically that would just start to change the sales wealth.
Lori Boyer 17:53
Yeah. I love that. Okay. It kind of made me think about the keeping it, because one of the stats I saw in there was that we are seeing a drop. So hopefully this means that people are, are starting to take your advice here, Tim, but it says the drop in 2024, 72% of keep it returns, that was the percent that had just, you know, keep your item, and it’s gone down to 60%.
That’s a big drop in a year of the number of returns that we’re just saying, you know, just keep it, whatever. So why do you think we’re seeing this pullback? Is it because people are switching their viewpoint? What impact do you feel like having?
Tim Robinson 18:32
Like consumers aren’t, they’re not idiots, you know? They know.
Lori Boyer 18:36
Some of us are Tim, some of us are.
Tim Robinson 18:39
If if re if a retailer’s telling me I’ll just keep it, it basically means it costs them more money to, to deal with it than it does, than it, than, than it’s value to have it back. And so. And so a, if you are the consumer, what, how does that make you feel about that item?
I mean, I’m not gonna feel great about it, about that thing, you know, it’s like, that’s not gonna, not gonna make you feel great. Yes. You know, on one hand it’s like, oh, I’ve got a free vest, or a free t-shirt or something. But it doesn’t feel great, does it? Because the, the retailer’s giving it you free and the idea that I can gift it or, or I can, I can, I can, you know, sell it or whatever is pretty far fetched in most cases.
I also feel though that, that consumers are way more kind of aware now, you have to treat this responsibly. You know, as, as you’re the brand. You own the brand. If, if I send it back to you, I’m, I trust you to treat it responsibly. ‘Cause I don’t wanna be responsible for piles of returns in the, at desert or landfill problems in the country that I live in.
Or, you know, I, I trust you, I trust the brand to, to deal with this for me. If you just tell me to keep it, the chances are I’m just gonna bin it. Absolutely. Or at some point it gets binned, because I might hold it in my bedroom for six years and then it gets right.
Lori Boyer 19:53
There was a reason we were returning it to start.
Tim Robinson 19:55
Reason we were returning it because we don’t have any, right.
Lori Boyer 19:57
We didn’t want it.
Tim Robinson 19:58
We don’t have anything for. So so I think there’s that, like consumers are there’s, there’s a bit of a kickback on it, and there has been like noise, like in the, in the sort of ether and the ecosystem, you know, various places, Reddit, all of those sort of channels, where you can see like consumers, consumer attitudes are changing. I think as well though there is, we’ve seen, and I would say this is definitely anecdotally rather than, rather than yet factually proven, but when we talk to consumers and we and and people in industry, there is a sense that you are being offered it less frequently.
So therefore, you know, and that’s come out in the stats. And so therefore I think there are some big businesses out there that had a proper look at keep it. Kind of, actually, it’s not really doing what we thought it might. And there are some, you know, there are some strings attached here from a reputational perspective or a, you know, a loyalty and a supply chain perspective and a backing off slowly but surely, you know. And you know, there’s a couple of brands where, you know, you start to hear anecdotal evidence that you just don’t see it as much as you used to. I don’t get offered that.
Lori Boyer 21:09
Yeah, absolutely. What’s interesting is that sort of sustainability piece, ’cause that came through in your survey as well.
I mean, look at our stats. It says, so in 2024, 55% of consumers, so they were concerned about kind of that environmental impact. It’s up to 65% in 2025, with 71% saying they won’t complete a return if they think it’s headed to a landfill. Yeah. And so how, again, what, what kind of strategies do we have out there to balance that sustainability kind of issue?
Tim Robinson 21:42
Yeah, so I mean there are a couple of things and I think this is an area where where transparency and visibility, in the eyes of consumers, could help change behavior in a way that also has a positive impact on bottom line. So you know, we, here in, I, I always sort of talk about a couple of examples historically that have cut, that have been executed in different ways, but that when the law changed, you had to wear seat belts.
You didn’t have to wear seat belts, then you have to wear seat belts. Yes, that came about through legislation, but it created a huge amount of behavior change and aptitude change. And to the extent that very quickly consumer, you know, kind of drivers, you know drivers who if you ever saw a driver that didn’t have their seatbelt on, it became a bit of a, you know, there was a real kind of stigma attached to it.
Lori Boyer 22:38
Yep.
Tim Robinson 22:40
You know, but because there’s sort of transparency and visibility around the, the risks of people not wearing seat belts and, and the societal responsibility around it, you know, carrier bags, you know, plastic carrier bags in supermarkets, you know, kind of restricting consumers’ access to those for free has changed behavior forever and changed their approach and attitude towards towards carrier bags. Providing provenance information on groceries and, and you know, kind of fresh produce that consumers really get into has driven up adoption of local, you know, locally produced produce and, and that, that, but, and, but we don’t, we don’t provide consumers really with any visibility about what happens to their return.
So I think if, if. We have all this data available. If, if we were to tell consumers when they go onto a returns page and they look at item X, if we were to tell them that 93% of these items get resold, 7% get gifted to here, you know, you might, you might start to see some of those items, some of those SKUs which are harder to resell, you know, low cost fast fashion, you know, throwaway type wear.
I dunno, I think consumer might start to think differently about that sort of stuff. Like, instead of ordering five, maybe I’ll order two.
Yeah. And I’ll, I’ll, I’ll be, I’ll feel, I’ll feel more compelled to get it right first time, you know, or you know, or I’ll think carefully about what it is I want.
I’ll do a bit more research or, you know, I’ll become a more kind of informed buyer. I feel like that would have a, that would have a, that would have a big impact. You know, just provide visibility.
Lori Boyer 24:26
Yeah, I agree completely. And I think that, you know, earlier you said consumers are not stupid, and yet sometimes we kind of try to hide things from them, like they might not notice.
And so the fact that you said transparency, I, I think that even goes back to if you do decide, hey, I need to make a returns policy change. Be transparent about why. Don’t just try to slip it in there. Just say, hey, we’re seeing this issue. We’re gonna need to offset some costs. We, consumers aren’t stupid. I, I love that, Tim.
That’s really spot on.
Tim Robinson 24:59
It’s hard to land a justification that’s around your bottom line.
Lori Boyer 25:03
Yes.
Tim Robinson 25:04
Because the reality is, you know, ecommerce, you know, it’s, it’s tough. It’s, it’s tough to make money in ecomm, omnichannel retail. You know, there’s not a load of businesses, you know, kind of getting made rich on it.
But still these are big brands with big presence and I’m not sure many consumers care that much, that, you know, business X is not making huge margins or whatever. But, but actually a lot of these, a lot of these policy shifts and philosophical shifts, do have really positive, you know, if they’re executed well, they will have really positive benefits to those things that consumers do care about.
So why not find a way? Why not use the data you’ve got or maybe your supply chain software partner might have, you know, and and show that data to consumers and, and help them make the right choices. And, and rather than making it policy, make it, make it visibility and education and then see what happens.
Lori Boyer 25:59
Love that. Rather than make it policy, make it visibility and education. Yeah, absolutely.
Tim Robinson 26:05
You never know. You never know. It might, you might get a, a much bigger impact and, and response than you expected.
Lori Boyer 26:11
Yeah. Fantastic. Okay. Another thing that stood out to me in the survey was kind of a rise in the number of returns that are being rejected.
36% of consumers say that they’ve actually had a return rejected. And for Gen Z that’s like, almost half, 49% so that they have the returns rejected. What, what is, what’s causing this? What’s happening here?
Tim Robinson 26:33
Yeah. And so it’s actually one of the things we are thinking about digging more into in next year’s survey. Getting a bit deeper.
Lori Boyer 26:39
Yeah. It’s interesting.
Tim Robinson 26:40
You know, in talking to our customers, our clients, and you know, about what they’re seeing. And actually, you know, spending time in. I was in Indianapolis a week before last in one of our, when a big returns handling center that’s running our software and one of our, one of our important partners.
You know, when you get in and you talk to people, you talk to those you know, people that are running returns they’re on benches, you know, they’re in, they’re, they’re, they’re, they’re physically handling these items. I would say there are a couple of things that really stand out. The first one is out of date, so two, so.
And you know, historically when you you know it, when you wanted, when you returned something that were, you know, the returns policy was 30 days, but you sent it back to the retailer in 50 days ’cause they sent you a label. Like, what are they gonna do with it? They get it back in 50 days time. They’ve given you a label.
They’ve used the label and like, well, I can’t send it back to ’em because, because it’s gonna cost me $6 to send it back to the consumer. Say, oh no, you couldn’t bring it, you couldn’t send this back so it was late. So you are stuck with it and you have to trigger the refund. Nowadays, such a high proportion of returns are generated through digital platforms.
So you only get the label once you put your order number in and you go through the process. And of course, those platforms know whether you are in date or not, whether you are within policy or not within policy. And so you get rejected at the point at which you are starting the returns journey as a consumer because you are out of date.
That is a, that is a bigger thing. There are more physical and digital controls on what you can return. The technology is helping and making growth of returns initiation platforms, you know, and their, their, their, their, their deployment across big and small brands. You know, you even think the small businesses, the growth of Shopify and, and the businesses that support Shopify in the return space, there’s so many choices.
You don’t run a Shopify shop without a returns platform and therefore you have those digital controls and, and constraints that mean you can’t return something which is out of policy. So I think there’s that. Technology is drive promoting that number. But in Gen Z, I do think, you know, we are starting to see the impact of wardrobing. You know, consumers wearing items and then send, keeping the labels in, but sending them back, you know, after having them worn. And the, the technology and warehouse is impro is improving now. So that you can tell whether something’s been worn or not worn. And actually, you know, in the modern world it is quite difficult.
It’s quite difficult to hide the fact you’ve worn an item. It really is.
Lori Boyer 29:18
Yes.
Tim Robinson 29:19
It’s, you know, and it’s, you know, it’s not pleasant to think about, but the reality is there are people in warehouses and their profession is sussing this stuff out. And so, and and it’s a very important role and you know, it’s one of those things that will change behavior.
And I believe that there’s been a real rise in wardrobing pre, just pre and post pandemic.
I think we’re gonna see that tail off because, you know, the, these, these businesses now in fashion particularly are getting there, are getting good at it.
Lori Boyer 29:48
So is it okay for to reject if it’s out of policy, if they we’re not seeing a consumer pushback against these rejections?
Right. So a, does the consumer just accept it?
Tim Robinson 30:00
I think it plays out in the, in the stats earlier, I, if I believe, if I’m a consumer and I’ve had a rejection, that might make me, change my loyalty to brand X and so and so. You know, I would say in all of those cases, I’m pretty sure the consumer is being rejected because they’re trying to initiate return on day 35 rather than day 30.
Lori Boyer 30:23
Yes.
Tim Robinson 30:24
The reality though is even though it’s day 35, retailer X may well still have demand for that item.
Lori Boyer 30:31
Yeah, absolutely.
Tim Robinson 30:33
So if they use the technology effectively, you could satisfy the customer, you could delight them. You know, look Lori this is out of date, but we’re gonna take it next time.
30 days sort of thing. And you can still sell it the full price, ’cause you know you’ve got demand, unsatisfied demand, and that product is still selling at good rates. Just by using, by treating these things as assets and inventory. You’ll do an inventory lookup. How, do I need this item? Where do I need it?
Can I get it from Lori to the, through the location? Yes. I can tick take the, take the return. The problem is there is a divorce between the returns initiation process and that that fulfillment decision, and what we are trying to do is bring those two things together.
Lori Boyer 31:13
Yeah. I really, really like that idea of making it a, an experience that delights your consumers.
Tim Robinson 31:20
Yeah. Yeah. Why not delight the customer if you can.
Lori Boyer 31:22
So smart, because then you’re actually solidifying that loyalty a little bit more. And, you really needed, if you can treat it as an asset, then you can still make your money, but also have a great consumer experience. So that’s perfect. I love that.
Absolutely. So Tim, we’re headed into, you know, the big peak season. Right. We’re coming up on the holidays. Everybody’s gearing up for our Super Bowl of the year. What are some of the top things that you would suggest? Obviously returns peak season is a little bit right after all of the holidays.
Yeah. Are there things people should be doing? Should they be tweaking their policy? Should they be getting clearer information? What, what suggestions do you have that people could do right now to make that returns experience way better for the upcoming holiday season?
Tim Robinson 32:10
Yeah, so I, I definitely feel like this is not a time to tighten your policy.
Lori Boyer 32:16
Okay.
Tim Robinson 32:17
Though your CFO may think so because.
Lori Boyer 32:20
They’ll always think so.
Tim Robinson 32:21
Yeah. They’ll be worried about, you know, gifting and, and sales, you know, kind of those big sales events that now kind of anchor our industry, you know, both supply chain and, and sort of retail. But I think this is not a time to restrict your policies and make it harder for people to shop because ultimately we all survive and grow and thrive if consumers still feel compelled to shop at this time of year.
Lori Boyer 32:52
Yeah, absolutely.
Tim Robinson 32:53
And so, and so, that’s the first thing. I would say that, make that, that philosophical shift I’ve mentioned a few times as quickly as possible, i.e. at this time more than any other time of the year, you know, have real con concrete cast iron plans.
For what you would do with returning SKUs under particular SKU groups. So it may well be that because of the nature of this time of year, you know, you might be looking to, to, you know, exit, you know out of season or, or, or, or closing season items. You might be looking to change your mix of products going into 2026, that’s fine.
But if you, if you can pre, pre designate the channel, the recommerce channel through which you are gonna get maximum value. Let’s encourage consumers to shop. Let’s give them, make it easy for them to return. But let’s know now, let’s understand now what we’re gonna do with those SKUs, and let’s put them through those channels as quickly as possible.
Let’s not let them pile up in a corner of a warehouse to be dealt with in March. You know, when, when we don’t, when and, and in a really disorganized fashion, let’s start to think, let’s, let’s create some rules and some logic now. And if, you know, if we have commerce channels like liquidators. You know reselling platforms, all those things.
Let’s get into our conversations with those resellers right now about what is valuable to them, what they think they would like in March, and let’s, let’s, let’s orchestrate those SKUs and those items and those products in those directions straight away. Let’s make it mechanistic. Let’s, let’s automate it and make sure that happens, because one of the, one of the, the, the biggest challenge of return season is actually spring.
It’s how you then get through all of those items effectively. And I would say, you know, you think about this year I’d learn everything you possibly can. Because it’s probably too late to make any major operational organizational changes now that’s gonna have a huge impact on return season 2026.
You could learn an awful lot about return season 2027. And you can spend 26 putting it right. So trying to correct, collect as much data and information as you can about returns, who’s returning, why they’re returning in peak. You know, how much of, how much of these returns are driven by sales and, and gifting reverses just standard behavior.
And then put that to work. Put that to work. We often, you know, this, the, the, the January, February is, you know, as you can imagine, is the time of year that spikes most demand in, in most, most leads in our world. I get more leads out period than any other time of year because, because our potential clients have been, you know, have been run ragged for eight weeks trying to work out what to do.
But we often then sit down in March and there’s no data. It’s just a problem. There’s a big pile of return to the corner. Can you help us? The more data you can collect now. Building up to Christmas, post-Christmas about what’s happening, where it’s coming from, why it’s coming, you know, collect that. The more, the quicker we can get at it in spring and make sure that 2027 is, you know, the rest of 26 and 27 is best.
Lori Boyer 36:10
That was really brilliant. Anytime that I’m looking and, and trying to get advice on how to manage any sort of problem, I always try to look at three areas, the people, the processes, and the technology, and you hit all of those, the people being first of all consumers, let’s keep our, our policies where they want it, but also making that, that shift in our mind about what it is.
Processes. Let’s look at how are we turning this into a revenue generator or an asset rather than a liability. And then the technology data. Are you gathering the data? What tools do you need to make sure that you’re able to do, you know, number two, the process. And so that was really, really good, Tim.
I appreciate that. Everyone out there who’s listening. Really great advice. Understand consumers are not in a place for 2025 where they are really, you know, they’re already tight. I mean, what, honestly, that’s what the data is showing is that they’re a little bit nervous about spending right now. Now is the time to be tightening your, your policies and you’ve got to, all the dimes also matter to the companies, to you too.
So make sure you’re using those as assets. Great, great advice there, Tim. Fantastic. Okay, so we’re about out of time, but if you were gonna put on your magic hat that can predict the future, any trends you see Tim going into 2026 that we can keep an eye out for?
Tim Robinson 37:36
Yeah, so I think, you know, we’ve seen real kind of growth and momentum in recommerce, but I would say that that public now overgrowth in reselling. So vintage, Depop, businesses like that. You know, Europe, you know this, it has become a real big thing, you know, consumers reselling items. So, you know, maybe if I’m, if I’m, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna return it, I’m gonna try and resell it and, and that’s gonna be my channel of value.
And I think that will continue to grow. But I would say the big trend now in business is is like really organized recommerce channels at scale. So I think the, the day of the liquidator, you know, being, being maybe a secondary market cents in the dollar type trader, I think that’s changing. I think liquidators, resellers are gonna become a big part of, of solving retail’s problems in the future through really well, well well diagnosed well researched, you know, channels for future value for these items.
Whether they’re geographic channels or, you know, or, or, or different services and industries. And I think we will see real sort of growth for some of those businesses like B-Stock and ThreadUp and those sort of businesses that, that offer really good, effective secondary lives to previously sold stock.
And I think we as a supply chain are gonna have to think about how we can make it easy for them to grow. Rather than being niche, I think they’re gonna have to, they’re gonna have to play a bigger role.
Lori Boyer 39:23
Be an actual part of a, a full, full fledged member of the supply chain. Okay. Well, I’ll have to have you come back in a year or so and, and we’ll see how all these predictions lined up.
Okay, Tim one thing I don’t like is when people listen to a podcast or something like this and then it’s like, oh, good ideas. And then go about their life. Let’s give them one task. What is something that you want them to do this week? You know, as an action item, as if we just had a, an action item meeting.
What, what are you gonna give ’em to do? And I’ll give ’em something too.
Tim Robinson 39:52
Do you know what I would do? I would, I would spend 15 minutes with a blank sheet of paper and I would think about in my organization, who touches returns? Who do, who does it matter to?
Lori Boyer 40:07
Love that.
Tim Robinson 40:07
Because I think you would come up with CFO store ops, and I’m thinking retail here, particularly. Store ops, warehouse management, transport management, procurement, merchandising. What that then gives you is your team, because you can’t solve this alone. And so and so, if you are interested in this space or you’ve been given a task, that’s why you are watching this podcast ’cause you’ve seen it’s might be about returns.
I’d spend 10, 15 minutes thinking about who’s the team and then how do I gather that team to think about this more holistically rather than it being a customer experience thing or a supply chain thing or a warehouse thing. Be that person in your organization that, that turns it into a brand value thing.
Lori Boyer 40:51
I love that. So put it on your calendar, people, schedule that time, 15 minutes right now. You can find it. Create a task force that is gonna be your returns task force. Fantastic advice. I’m not even gonna follow that up. That was just perfect. So thank you, again, Tim, for being here. This was really, really fun.
Tim Robinson 41:11
No, I really appreciate it. It’s been great. And hope we will meet again one day. Thank you.
Lori Boyer 41:14
Yes, for sure. And we’ll see you all next time. Bye-Bye.
