Are You Ready for the 2025 Retail Peak Season? With Sucharita Kodali From Forrester - Ep. 63
In This Episode
Now that we’re past the halfway point of the year (can you believe it?), it’s time to get serious about peak season. When handled right, peak is an opportunity to drive more sales than ever, reach new markets, and continue to delight loyal customers.
But will tariffs, inflation, and other issues stand in the way?
Sucharita Kodali, retail industry analyst at Forrester, explains exactly what’s going on in the retail industry, what we can expect from the 2025 peak season, and how to get ready.
What’s the current state of retail?
It’s no secret that the past few months have been full of economic uncertainty for both consumers and businesses. Sucharita says that while essential goods are still in high demand, retailers that sell non-essentials may be struggling.
“There is a particularly uncertain vibe [due to] … not knowing where the tariff situation may land, as well as consumer confidence not being terribly high, which means that a lot of discretionary items are more vulnerable.”
What can retailers expect from peak season 2025?
Sucharita points out an interesting contradiction: while consumer confidence has been “quite low,” spending levels in 2025 are still relatively high—even when adjusted for inflation. That’s good news for businesses moving into the holiday season.
Even so, she predicts that peak season will see heavy discounting as usual (consumers, rejoice!) unless brands face major supply chain issues.
She notes, “There's no reason to hold onto inventory and hoard it. So unless there's a supply shock, I can't envision a scenario where it's not going to be another heavy discounting season.”
Should businesses frontload inventory?
The decision to frontload inventory depends on many factors, including storage and transportation costs, margins, categories, and anticipated demand. According to Sucharita, “Perhaps the biggest issue is [whether] you have cash. If you don't have any money and you don't have any savings, does it make sense to put yourself in credit card debt? No.”
So if you’re thinking about stocking up ahead of peak season, make sure your cash flow can support the extra costs you’ll incur.
Links
Transcript
Lori Boyer 00:00
Welcome to Unboxing Logistics. Excited to be here. Excited to see our Unboxing Logistics community today. I didn't sleep last night. I was so excited. It was like Christmas Eve because we have on somebody today that you are all gonna be dying to hear from and is like, I'm kind of fangirling here because it's my dream job.
So cool. We have Sucharita, and she works at Forrester and is an analyst over everything retail. So cool. So we're gonna be talking about retail, what we expect kind of for the upcoming peak season with the fall, the holiday, and just kind of what she's seeing. The world's crazy out there right now. Say hello and introduce yourself a little bit about your background to our community.
Sucharita Kodali 00:52
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I, I think that was the most generous introduction for somebody who nobody knows. So thank, thank you, Lori. I appreciate it. That, that's wonderful. I, I, I rarely get that enthusiasm in my own family, so happy to have it anywhere I can get it. Thank you. Yeah, it's great to be here.
Lori Boyer 01:15
Fantastic. So I love data. I love everything that has to do with trends. And right now everything is crazy, we know, and so trends are hard to pin down. Okay. Let's talk retail. What is the general mood you're kind of seeing out there right now across brands, retailers, ecommerce what, you know, before we kind of dig into any specifics, what are you just kind of getting the, the mood from?
Sucharita Kodali 01:44
There's a lot of uncertainty right now. And it is worse in some sectors than others. If you are in apparel or anything discretionary. I think that there is a particularly uncertain vibe and that is a combination of not knowing where the tariff situation may land as well as consumer confidence not being terribly high, which meets that a lot of discretionary items are more vulnerable than others.
On the other hand, it does seem like a lot of essentials categories seem to be doing better, whether it is mass merchandise or the dollar channel, or warehouse clubs. So that suggests to me that a lot of the essential goods continue to still hold their own in spite of, of all of the concerns. But when you look at valuations and stock prices for retail companies, almost anybody who is discretionary has basically said that there's you know, they've either lowered their expectations or they're extremely cautious for the back part of the year. And I think that that is being reflected in the retail sectors valuations, which haven't always recovered. There've been, there's some players like Costco, Walmart that, that continue to, to do fine or actually exceeding market performance.
But but I, but I think that there's a lot of uncertainty. And the strongest retailers don't show up at, at conferences in many cases. It's often the ones that are looking for answers and are the most challenged. So those are the ones that I often hear from. And there's, there's a lot of uncertainty.
There's just not, there's not a sense of what what the outlook is and what will happen with inflation, what, what's gonna happen in the political landscape, what's gonna happen with shopper confidence and so on.
Lori Boyer 03:46
So I've done a couple of different surveys recently, and this is just hitting kind of the, you know, getting a little bit of the pulse.
And what I'm seeing is consumer you know, my, my highest concern that people have put in as their result is low consumer demand being a concern followed by then by tariffs and, and those kind of costs and whatnot. So what, what are your anticipations, what I'm hearing from you, discretionary that's where the bigger concern is.
Obviously it's interesting that you say essentials are doing even better than usual. Anything surprising I guess when it comes to kind of the signals consumers are giving? Any industries maybe that are doing better or or holding on more. Any thoughts around kind of that consumer demand piece?
Sucharita Kodali 04:33
So there has been a lot of cognitive dissonance in the economy for the last few years. And the reason that I say that is that consumer confidence has been quite low. And for the last year it's been as low as the, as it was during the pandemic. But on the other hand, what you have are still relatively high levels of spend. So consumer spend, even inflation adjusted is at its highest level ever.
You have other macro signals, whether it is GDP growth or whether it's unemployment. Unemployment still quite low. You still have the GDP rates being quite high. You have other signals like interest rates. Well, I should say inflation is, is, is approaching that 2% level, which was always the fed's magic number, which was the number that would trigger rate cuts.
So. You have lots of, of, you know, kind of conflicting issues where the consumer says that they're not happy, but yet they're employed. Their wages are higher than ever. But, and, and they're spending, but they say that they are unhappy and they're, they're nervous about the future. Where are people?
So there's, I have, there's a whole fee, you know, kind of, there's actually quite a bit of data that says why that is. A lot of that is politically tied because when you look at who's unhappiest, it's basically whoever is not in the White House at that moment in time. So during the Biden administration everybody was unhappy.
Well, the average numbers were the same, low, low rates of consumer confidence, but it was highly, you know, kind of deflated by Republicans. And now you see the opposite where in the Trump administration you have, again, low rates of consumer confidence, you know, kind of dragged down by Democrats. So, you know, kind of, so there's that, which is the political and the polarization of your, you know, kinda just of, of people that we've noticed over the last, probably decade, probably more than that, but.
That's been driving whether or not you're happy and whether or not you're confident, I should say confident, not, not necessarily happy. But then your other question was like, which sectors are growing or not? ecommerce continues to grow. That's the non-store retailer sector. You have essential goods, grocery is doing okay but you have, you know, kind of in the early part of 2025, we actually saw automotive growing pretty strongly because people were frontloading their automotive purchases worried about tariffs. So they were, they were trying to get ahead of that for fear that low prices would be, would be higher.
And the, the sector that I find has been most puzzling, which is where I think that there's this complete you know, kind of illustration of the cognitive dissonance is food away from home, which is the restaurant sector, which has been on fire pretty much since, you know, kind of, we started to go out again after, you know, kind of removing masks during the pandemic. And those numbers have been really strong. Inflation is actually highest in that sub-sector.
And if there is a discretionary item in our budgets, you know, the most discretionary would be eating out. And yet that's going, that's going up and that's increasing. So, you know, kind of while we're cutting back on things that are discretionary like apparel you know, we're leaning into and continuing to spend on discretionary items like, you know, quick service restaurants or fine dining or whatever the dining situation may be.
And, and that was the, the call out to me that I was like, you know, kind of this, these are total crocodile tears when people say that they're distressed about the economy. Because if you were that distrust about the economy, you are not gonna be eating out at Chipotle.
Lori Boyer 08:52
So many cool truth bombs there.
Love that insight about the fact that people say they're upset, but that's a little bit more just aligned with, we're upset with where politics are going, whoever it is. Their actions don't seem to be following up with what they're saying. So interesting about the discretionary. So some discretionary is cutting.
As you said, apparel is falling. Is that in relation at all to, you know, the tariffs, de minimis all of those pieces with China? Is that related to the apparel piece or is that separate?
Sucharita Kodali 09:30
Apparel, I think has been a really, complicated story. I think that there are a few different things that are happening in apparel.
The most recent would be the Temu Shein phenomenon, and supposedly those are now billion dollar plus companies. And anytime you have an entrance that generates billions of dollars, it's gonna be taking share away from, from other players, and you're doing it by lowering price points and increasing the number of units sold.
So so there's an argument to be made that there's, there may be some mall merchants, you know, perhaps the Old Navys, you know, that that could be adversely impacted by, by the Temu Shein phenomenon. On the other hand, there are off price retailers like TJX and Ross that are continuing to do okay, they're in that value sector.
So maybe units are not off, you know, kind of off all that much and, and you know, kind of, they're part of the declining unit price, you know, kind of unit per transaction or, you know, kind of part of the the lowering of average average selling price story that may be happening. So, so I, I think that there's, there's definitely you know, kind of price deflation in apparel. And that's actually been pretty much a story since the U.S. lost apparel manufacturing, like in the eighties. Right. I mean, we were, you know, North Carolina, where I live, was still manufacturing clothing and soft goods pretty much through the seventies and, you know, kind, kind of the eighties. And as, as China has grown and, you know, that was pretty much in the eighties and, and the nineties is when, when, when Chinese and far East manufacturing really started to explode. You started to see the declining price points in sectors like apparel. I mean, Old Navy really didn't even start until the nineties, right? The early to mid nineties. And, and those were disruptive changes to the apparel landscape. It, they marked the, basically the death of department stores.
I mean, department stores were still growing until, pretty much until 9/11 and ever since then, it's been a steady, slow slide down for them. And it's, so I think that you have these, these mega macro issues that are happening with respect to where these products are getting manufactured. And then you have these little players here and there that are coming in and you know, becoming big players and disrupting the incumbents.
But on the other hand, you, you have other sectors that are very high price point and are, you know, like an Alo or Lululemon that. You know, kind of our, our capturing sales in the premium space. They're not actually huge business. I mean, they're big, but they're not, you know, I mean, these are not $20 billion businesses even.
So but you know, kind of, I think that they, they've occupied a niche with affluent consumers and. So, anyway, it's a very long winded explanation of what I think is happening in apparel and to tie it back yeah to right now, I, I think what we're seeing is that it is it is challenged from a cost standpoint.
It's challenged from a consumer demand standpoint, and it's challenged from a competition standpoint. So the ability of these apparel manufacturers to be able to raise prices is almost, you know, kind of, there, there's no ability for them to raise their prices in most cases because they're commodities that are easily replaceable.
Lori Boyer 13:26
Yeah, absolutely. Are there other industries you're seeing outside of apparel where maybe discretionary spending is falling?
Sucharita Kodali 13:35
Big box ish type category. Obviously footwear, part and parcel with with apparel, although there are success stories, even within footwear. You look at some of the running shoe brands that are not Nike and they're doing quite well, whether it's On or Hoka or, it, you know, can there even smaller emerging brands that, that are, that are out there, that are doing okay. But even outside of that sporting goods. Toys is very challenged, will continue to be challenged. They're heavily dependent on Chinese manufacturing. And that's a sector that has very, very little innovation and has had very little innovation.
So that is a sector that I think is gonna be incredibly challenged over the next five to 10 years. And you know, so, so I think anything that that is, is in, I. Office supply. You know, I mean, these are all things that, that I, that, that we see much, much more challenge. Consumer electronics isn't really doing phenomenally well.
I mean, they too have been challenged by tariff issues because a lot of those goods are manufactured in, in China and you don't have, we're not in a replacement cycle for any. It, you know, there's no, not been any blockbuster new CE release either. So all of these things I, I think have led to when you look at the sales of Best Buy or you, you know, kind of the mall merchants or you know, any sporting goods retailers if they are doing well, and many of them aren't necessarily, you know, kind of reporting out of this world metrics, they have very, very cautious outlooks for the rest of the year.
Lori Boyer 15:17
Okay, so let's talk about the rest of the year then, as we go into the holiday season, into the peak season for a lot of our ecommerce retailers, everybody, what do you, obviously we're in a season of uncertainty, so you know, not holding you do what's gonna happen here?
But what would you anticipate that, you know, people who are listening, they're ecommerce sellers, they're retailers, they are, you know, wondering, you know, advice. What, what do you see happening? What, what do you anticipate happening? And, and I guess, what kind of advice do you have for maybe protecting margins or, or working through some of these macroeconomic challenges?
Sucharita Kodali 15:53
I don't know that there are any easy answers to that because we don't know.
Lori Boyer 15:58
We'd be rich, Sucharita, if we knew it all.
Sucharita Kodali 16:00
Exactly. Exactly. I mean, I don't know that we, we really know what the, what the future holds. I think that a lot of people don't really understand what's happening with tariffs. And if, you know, if I can share my opinion, it doesn't seem to me that tariffs are necessarily the end.
They're, they're sort of a means to the end, which are tied to a whole slew of other macroeconomic issues like the U.S. being in in debt and you know, kind of essentially having to spend a significant part of our budget every year, the, the U.S. federal budget on things like interest payments on that debt or military payments to protect other regions in the world.
And I think that the goal is to reduce some of those payments ultimately, you know, it's not, and tariffs you know, could be a means to that end, but it's more that tariffs, I think, are a negotiating tactic to just straight up get payments, you know? So I, I don't know that, that these are, this is gonna necessarily be the topic that we're gonna be talking about a year from now.
Plus you, you know, kind of like. I think it's, it's fairly well known even amongst White House economists that, you know, kind of tariffs in, in, you know, kind of the, the form as they're being portrayed by the media would almost certainly lead to a recession. And I don't know that anybody wants to head into a recession particularly as we're going into an election year too.
So, so I, I, I don't. So, so I think that there's, so, anyway, to answer, to go back to your question of what's gonna happen, I don't know, and I don't know that anyone knows how to respond in this scenario where there is so much uncertainty. Because there are two scenarios, right? It's like, you know, kind of, we could continue to have, you know, kind of these threats of tariffs, and they could go up and down, and who knows where it's ultimately gonna shake out.
And if, if you do believe that tariffs are the end game, then where you are probably best positioned to act now is to front load supply. You know, kind of get as much inventory, perhaps as unfinished goods to wherever you can so that as needed, you can start manufacturing. On the other hand, if you don't believe that tariffs are long-term and they are just political theater that would be a tremendous waste of working capital to be front-loading anything.
So, and then you potentially risk wasting resources and hurting your cash flow, which is usually the fastest route to bankruptcy. So I, I, I think that there's a lot of wait and see. There's a lot of, how late can we act? Can we shrink our, do we need to shrink our business and shrink expectations for our business while still staying alive?
And I think that's really what companies are doing is, is, you know, kind of, they're not investing. They're not hiring, they are trying to be as cautious and issue cautious earnings announcements, wherever possible. So I think that that's, that's what they're doing is just hunkering down and, and seeing how they can just stay alive and maintain cash flow.
That's, you know, I think that's what you, that's the best you, you can do.
Lori Boyer 19:40
Do you feel like this is gonna be kind of a race to the bottom discount sort of season? Or do you think I, I'm seeing different articles all the time on how different retailers are, you know, just today I read an article, Walmart says that they're gonna raise prices and you know, but then we'll see some other retailers saying they're not going to, or, you know, we're keeping things.
What, what do you think is gonna happen, I guess, between that fight between, you know, potentially low consumer demand and raising prices or rising costs. So what I guess do you anticipate, and what do you feel like is a smart move for people?
Sucharita Kodali 20:19
I suspect we'll see a bit of a redux that we saw during the pandemic, which is there will be price increases on inelastic goods, which tend to be in essential categories.
And now the risk with that is that that will almost definitely trigger an economic downturn because you know, kind of, that is the most visible way that inflation is reflected in the, in the economy. And it's, it's, you know, it's like all the angst that people have about egg prices or milk prices or, you know, kind of these basic commodities.
So, but that is yet where I, I, I would imagine, you know, kind of there's the easiest ability to, to raise, to raise prices. Whether or not Wal, Walmart and the grocers actually do, I think remains to be seen. I mean, one of the good things about the U.S. economy and, and U.S. retail is it's so hyper competitive that it's very, it's quite difficult to raise prices.
So I, I don't know that, that, that will necessarily shake out. I mean, the only time in recent years that we've seen holiday not be a discount you know, kind of discount season is the year that the Suez Canal was backed up. Right. You know, so, and those were supply chain related issues where you had significant issues with factories or you had significant, significant issues with, with trade routes and that, that led to, you know, kind of less inventory at critical times which meant that you just couldn't discount because you didn't have things to discount. But I, I don't, I don't anticipate, you know, I mean, retail is hyper competitive and if you have products, you need to get rid of those and you're gonna, if you have inventory, you need to sell it and you're gonna sell it you know, whatever price it, it gets sold at.
And there's no, there's no reason to hold onto that inventory and hoard it. So, you know, kind of, unless there's like a supply shock, I can't, I can't, I can't envision a scenario where it's not gonna be another heavy discounting season.
Lori Boyer 22:35
Okay, so I'm kind of reading between the lines a little bit here, but as we look towards this upcoming holiday season, do you anticipate, what I'm hearing is that people are saying that they're cautious, but their actions aren't necessarily proving that. Do you feel like, you know, when we wrap things up that we'll end up seeing probably a similar amount of shopping that took place as we have in the last few years, or do you still think that there's a potential that there will be, you know, dips this year in the amount of goods sold?
Sucharita Kodali 23:09
The only scenario where there will be dips is if prices go up substantially. So right now inflation is just north of 2%. That's the fed's magic number.
That's where they want it to hold steady. And so if, if anything were to change that, so if food apparel, you know, if any sub-sector in consumer spend were to increase its prices due to supply chain issues or due to tariffs or some other factor then, you know, kind of, I, I do think that you'd see a potential downturn, but it doesn't, nothing seems to suggest that prices are going to go up suddenly. You know, kind of, there's, people say that that's what they're doing, but we haven't actually seen it in the CPI data yet. And retail numbers are still trending quite positive. So when you look at the censuses spend numbers. They're still the highest levels ever. I don't see that falling off a cliff between now and the holiday season.
So and there would have to be other major macro changes. Like you would have to see employment spike or wages go down for, for significant changes. But, but that hasn't happened either.
Lori Boyer 24:39
So as long as we stay kind of status quo as we are now, we can probably anticipate nothing crazy going on.
Okay. That's great.
Sucharita Kodali 24:46
And I think that a large part of the reason, I mean, the tariff situation has. It's been more limited in which categories it's actually touching. It's there's a lot of announcements and then a lot of retractions and it, you know, kind of companies saying that they have things in bonded warehouses, but you know, again, it's not yet flowing through to shopper prices that are visible in the aggregate when you look at CPI numbers yet. So we shall see. I mean, it's June and you know, I mean, there's still months to go for, for some of that to make its way through the economy.
Lori Boyer 25:27
Do you recommend frontloading?
Is that something you would recommend right now or in the 90 days? I, I see like the pros and cons, like sometimes it seems good, but then also the shipping lanes through the oceans are really high. Those prices are going way up because so many people are frontloading. So for me, I, I, yeah, again, this is just.
The, the opinion of Sucharita. Not us though. What do you think?
Sucharita Kodali 25:53
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't, I I think that there are so many factors that go into making those decisions, right? What is the, what's, what's ultimately the fully loaded cost once you, once you incorporate transportation or any bonded warehouse cost to that, you may need to incorporate there or other you know, kind of storage fees that you may have to incur. I mean, what I've, what I've heard from some retail, some manufacturers, actually suppliers it depends on your margins and your categories. I mean, even with really high tariffs. It is not worth their, it is not worth it to even switch manufacturing because their margins were so substantial.
And they wouldn't, you know, kind of be able to get a competitive price even if they switched manufacturing to other, other supposedly low cost regions. So. You know, I mean, it just, it really really depends on the, the category. It depends on your anticipated demand, and perhaps the biggest issue is do you have cash?
You know, I mean, if you, if you don't have any money and you don't have any savings, you know, does it make sense to put yourself in a credit card debt? No. You know, I mean, so I think it just really depends on so many scenarios. If you can afford it you know, perhaps. It probably, if you can afford it and it's a commodity where, you know what the demand is gonna be for your item.
Sure. But it, you know, I mean, if it's fashion I don't know that front loading anything in fashion makes that much sense because you could be stuck with a whole bunch of inventory that doesn't sell. Yeah.
Lori Boyer 27:30
Ends up in the landfill. Honestly.
Sucharita Kodali 27:33
Or driving you bankrupt, you know? I mean, I, I, I mean, the lack of cash flow is the number one reason that companies go out of business. So you, you know, you have to manage.
Lori Boyer 27:46
I love that. I, I'm just gonna stop and say that businesses listening, the lack of cash flow is the number one reason you go out of business. So think about the cash flow. Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead.
Sucharita Kodali 27:57
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so that's yeah.
Lori Boyer 28:01
Yeah, that's massive. I mean, that's huge.
And sometimes people do. I know I talk to retailers all the time, you know, and sometimes, well, it's okay, maybe I'll just get into debt on this and do. So cashflow issue, looking at an individual. Are there any other sleeper trends or something that you feel like retailers should have on their radar? As we're going into the back half of this year? You've covered a ton, but.
Sucharita Kodali 28:25
As far as carriers and shipping and ecom, not, not necessarily. I think that there there are larger macro issues that, that are in the landscape and we're in the middle of of an AI revolution. You know, kind of, you, you know, kind of you're cautious about your financial situation.
You're cautious about your, your healthcare situation. Always ask questions. The same thing. Needs to be the same approach with, with any, you, you know, kind of anything in, in your, your life or your job or your personal information with respect to big technology companies, I, I don't think that we can assume you know, kind of that any big tech company is looking out for our best interests.
Lori Boyer 29:11
Why devices, we're looking at anything with new technology, new, especially things that are super hyped, it's always good to make sure that you're being cautious.
I had to say for the first time ever, and I know we're running late, so this was fun, but for the first time ever I was doing kind of a deep dirt deep research on something. And I came up with ChatGPT and I was working through something and it had come up with a stat, which is always, you know, you're suspicious.
So I was like you know, what is this? This seems like interesting. I need a citation and, you know, can you get me to the source and what's my. It came back and it was the first time I experienced this. This actually came from internal documents, from company blank, and it says, so I don't have a source to share with you.
I was like, did it really? You know what I mean? Somebody must have uploaded something and it shared that info with me. So I, I think it is wise, we don't know for sure if we're just sending stuff out there of, of what may be shared. So again, I, I wish I could have you for like three hours because you're so fun.
Just to close up though, if, if you could leave anyone with a piece of advice as we're hitting the last six months, uncertainty is in the air what, what piece of advice would you leave them with?
Sucharita Kodali 30:28
So two things. One is you can control what you can control businesswise. And there are some things that you, I mean, there are more ecommerce sales being transacted on things like mobile devices and make sure your site's mobile optimized.
There is a large amount of return fraud that seems to be growing so leverage data and AI and machine learning to, to, you know, kind of what we're, what it seems to be a trend toward is more of more conservative returns policies, more conservative shipping policies, but with exceptions where you may give certain high value shoppers or people who may be part of your loyalty program more generous feature sets than, than maybe what you promote to the general, the general public. So I think that those are some of the business things people can control. From a, a larger life standpoint. If you are in the United States, the single biggest piece of advice that I can give is to vote in your primary elections.
The delta between the percent of people who vote in primaries and the percent of people that vote in general elections is like 30 to 50%, and elections, particularly for Congress, are determined in the primaries. Participation in primaries is super low. And my advice is to educate yourself. The lack of independent voters in primaries.
The lack of willingness of independent voters to vote in primaries is part of the reason we are in the polarized environment that we are in. So, and part of the, the, the mess that we see ourselves in with, you know, kind of big tech getting away with, with everything. So if we, if you think that any of this needs to change I would suggest doing some homework and voting in those primaries.
Lori Boyer 32:28
Yeah, no, I love that. And I just, I've had multiple people on who work closely with Congress, and always a recommendation is let your voice be heard, reach out to people as well. Like if you may be a small business, but your Congress person does actually care and read those things and say, oh, my small business people are saying this.
And so sometimes we do just sit back and be like, well, there's nothing I can do and just life's horrible, and no. Get out there, vote. Write your Congress people. Do whatever you can to try to help yourself and protect yourself. Love the advice of controlling what you can control. Huge truth bomb there when it comes to your business, there are little things that when the economy is woo beautiful and bright, that we let kind of fall by the wayside. Take a look at those. Great advice. Thank you again so much for being here. If anyone wants to connect with you or follow you, where would they do that?
Sucharita Kodali 33:24
If anyone wants to reach out, I mean, I, you know, kind of at this point, I'm fine.
You know, it's first initial, last name at Forrester. If anyone has questions or I. You know, kind of wants to, wants to connect.
Lori Boyer 33:36
Oh, I love that. And thank you again for all your insights as we're trying to figure out this crazy season, and it's been wonderful having you.
Sucharita Kodali 33:44
Yeah, thank you, Lori. It's been great to be here.
Lori Boyer 33:47
Great. We'll see you all next time.